Note: This is an archive of the Rankings F.A.Q. from 2015.

Rankings F.A.Q.

What is the FNC Current Rankings?

The Current Rankings compare historic player achievement in an objective merit-based way, based on the previous 52 weeks/365 days of player activity in one-on-one combat tournaments. The rankings are to help Fight Night organizers with qualifications and seedings, leading to a more fair and entertaining tournament.

The rankings are also a way for observers to refer to how good a specific player might be. For example, "She is a top 10 player" or "He is the number one player at the moment."

More broadly, the rankings are compiled to encourage more jugglers to take part in more Fight Night tournaments, and to encourage more jugglers to organize more Fight Night tournaments at juggling conventions, festivals, or other events.

What is the Current Rankings formula?

From January 2013 until December 2014, the rankings formula was very simple: Each player's ranking points are the sum of their five best tournament results by points value (not by tournament placement) from the previous 52 weeks/365 days of Fight Night tournaments. Any extra tournament results are not included, and count for zero points.

As of December 2014, there is be a new rankings formula, based on tournament level.

Each player's points total includes his or her best points from each of:

  • One 1000 level tournament
  • Two 750/500/350 level tournaments
  • Two 300/250 level tournaments
  • One 125 level tournament

from the previous 52 weeks/365 days of Fight Night tournaments.

If a player takes part in more than two 500 level events, their remaining 500 level points are reduced to what they would be for the same placement in a 250 level tournament. Any of these reduced points may then count towards their best two 250 level results if it is better than their first or second best 250 result, or if the player has taken part in fewer than two 250 level events.

Likewise, if a player takes part in more than two 250 level results, their remaining 250 level points are reduced to what they would be for the same placement in a 125 level tournament. Any of these reduced points may then count towards their best 125 level result if it is better than any existing 125 level tournament result, or if the player hasn't taken part in a 125 level event.

Reduced points from a 500 level event, if not included at 250 level, can also count towards a player's 125 level tournament, but are once again reduced.

While higher level tournament points may be counted in place of any lower level tournament result, points for lower level tournaments can not be counted in place of higher level tournament results, even if the awarded points are higher.

Due to the scheduling of Fight Night host events, it's possible for the results of a Fight Night tournament to be counted for more or fewer than 365 days; the tournament is counted in rankings calculations from the Monday following the tournament until the drop date of the tournament.

The drop date of a tournament is either:

  • The Monday after the Fight Night at the same host event the following year. When fewer than 365 days, it is to stop results from two Fight Nights at the same host event being counted twice. When more than 365 days, it's to stop a "gap" opening up where, for example, nobody has any points from the EJC Fight Night counting towards their rankings, and those points should be considered for seeding purposes at the following EJC Fight Night.
  • If there is no Fight Night at the same event the following year, the points are dropped on the Monday after 365 days.

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What is the Race Rankings 2015?

The Race Rankings for 2015 only counts the tournaments in the 2015 calendar year, and is a way to see the overall best FNC player for the year so far. The final race rankings result will match the current rankings for December 31st 2015.

The Race Rankings will show who is in contention for the year-end European Masters 2015.

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What are the points for different results in all points levels of tournaments?

Tournament level1st2nd3rd4th/semi-finalistRound of 8Round of 16Qualification maximum
"1000"100060041036018090120
"750"7504503152701356590
"500"500300210180904560
"250"25015010590452045
"125"125755245251014

Notes:

  • Points awarded during qualification are based on the win/loss ratio during round-robin qualification. If a player wins 8 and loses 8 matches in qualification at a 500 point event, they are awarded 0.5 * 60 = 30 points.
  • If a player takes part in the qualification but not the knockout stages, they are awarded their qualification points and the next lower player takes their place in the knockout, along with the new total of points.
  • If a player's points from qualification are worth more than their knockout points, they keep their points from qualification.
  • Some tournaments give the top four seeds a bye in the round of 16, leading to only 12 players taking part in the tournament and, confusingly, exactly 8 players taking part in both the round of 8 and the round of 16.
  • If a player recieves a bye in the round of 16 to play directly in the round of 8, and they lose their first match, they are not awarded round of 8 points. Instead they receive round of 16 points or their qualification points, whichever is greater.
  • Some tournaments do not hold a 3rd place match, so both losing semi-finalists are awarded the same points. If there is a third place match planned, but a losing semi-finalist is not available to play for any reason, they forfeit the match, and the remaining semi-finalist is awarded third place points.
  • Some early EJC Fight Nights used a double elimination format. The points awarded for these vary from the above table.

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How is the points level of a Fight Night tournament decided?

So far, Fight Night tournaments are worth (for the winner) either 1000, 750, 500, 250 or 125 points. This is decided after a discussion between the tournament director and me (Luke Burrage).

250 and 125 points tournaments

As a general guide, for tournaments in 2015, the default level is 250 points. This assumes:

  • It takes place at a city or regional juggling convention lasting one day, two days, or one weekend.
  • Promotion of the tournament before the host event, and pre-listing on the 2015 Tournament Schedule page.
  • Open participation for anyone who wants to take part.
  • A total participation of at least 12 players.
  • Qualification by round robin one-on-one matches to decide qualification and seedings.
  • Eight players in the knockout rounds.
  • Matches played to three points, with the final round played to five points.
  • A third place match.
  • Good record keeping.
  • All match results and qualification information submitted in good time to this website.
  • Photos or video from the event.

If a tournament doesn't meet any one (or more) of the above criteria, it may be lowered to a 125 point tournament. For example:

  • A spontaneous tournament, without previously being announced or listed, doesn't allow possibly interested players to even plan to take part.
  • If the tournament is by invite only, it artificially denies possible points to willing and available participants.
  • If only eight players take part in qualification for an eight person knockout, it is possible for a player to win zero matches in either qualification or the knockout and still be awarded knockout points. This is not fair to people who win some qualification matches in another other event without qualifying, and who would receive fewer points than someone with zero wins.
  • Group combat for qualification is not as rigorous or as fair as round robin qualification.
  • Four or six players in the knockout rounds means fewer matches need winning for earning points.
  • No third place match means players miss out on otherwise available points.
  • If the tournament director doesn't keep track of the full names and scores of every participant, players and their points can't be included in the various rankings.
  • Results and tournament information should be submitted before any following tournament so the rankings are up to date for the next tournament director to use for fair qualifications and seedings.
  • No photos or video makes for boring tournament results listings and news posts.

Not meeting one of the above criteria does not automatically lower a 250 tournament to a 125 level. This will be decided after discussion with me (Luke) and other FNC organizers. Strength in one area can make up for deficiencies in others. For example, a well-promoted tournament at a small convention may only attract 10 or 11 players, but they could all be of a high level, so the requirement for at least 12 players could be wavered. Or a spontaneous event with group qualification, but with 20 participants, could also be a 250 tournament. Or an invite-only tournament, but as part of a larger event, or even a non-juggling event, with a well-produced video, may also be a 250 tournament.

If a tournament listed as 250 points exceeds all or most of the above requirements, it might be elevated to the 500 point level.

500 points tournaments

In 2015, for a tournament to be worth 500 points, it must must meet all the above requirements and exceed them in the following ways:

  • It takes place at a national juggling convention, or at a very large regional convention, lasting four or more days.
  • It must be listed as a 500 level event on the 2015 tournament schedule before the 1st of January 2015, or for a minimum of six months before it takes place.
  • It is mentioned in convention promotional material alongside other shows and special events, both printed and online.
  • It is listed in the convention schedule.
  • A total participation of at least 24 players.
  • 12 players in the knockout rounds.
  • Matches played to three points in the first round, four points in R8, five points in the semi-finals and final.

Again, if a tournament listed as 500 points falls short on any of these criteria, it doesn't automatically drop to a 250 level. Exceeding the criteria in some areas will make up for missing them in others. The final level will be decided after discussion with me (Luke) and deliberation among other FNC organizers.

750 point tournaments

In 2015, there will be two 750 point tournaments, at the Berlin Juggling Convention and the Dutch Juggling Festival (NJF). These have been selected as particularly prestigious tournaments (based on player entries in 2013 and 2014), and have been elevated to the 750 level to encourage more international participation by top 10 players.

There may be other 500 points tournaments elevated to the 750 level in 2016.

For rankings purposes, the 750 tournaments are included with 500 level tournaments in a player's results calculations.

1000 points tournaments

In 2015, there will be only one 1000 point tournament. The European Juggling Convention is by far the most prestigious FNC tournament, and is the most popular in terms of participation and audience. In 2014 it attracted 40 participants and had 16 players in the first knockout round.

Other tournaments

In 2015 there may be other tournaments that fall outside of these categories. For example, the proposed year end European Masters 2015.

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What future changes may there be to the rankings formula?

As of 2014, the top five results from the previous 365 days are counted towards a player's points total. In 2015, six results will be counted, though not always the top 6. As and when Fight Night tournaments become more frequent, and the number of tournaments a juggler may possibly enter increases, the number of countable tournaments will increase too.

The maximum number of top results counted will increase to always exceed the average number of tournaments entered by the top ranked players by one or two. For example, on 29-04-2014, the top five players in the rankings had taken part in an average of 4.2 tournaments each, and the top ten players had taken part in an average of 3.3 tournaments each. As of 25-08-2014, the average number of tournaments for the top 5 was 6.4 and 5.1 for the top 10.

Increasing the number of countable tournaments to stay ahead of participation will encourage those who have entered fewer tournaments to enter more. For those who have uncounted tournament points, unless they have won all the highest value tournaments, they still have incentive to enter tournaments to increase their counted points in the immediate future, and to keep more points available to bolster their ranking points total as other events drop after 365 days.

If needed in the future, to encourage top players to enter lower points value tournaments, a player must enter at least one tournament at each points level for all points across all their tournaments to be counted in full. Specifically, a player must enter at least one 250 level event before their least valuable result from their two 500 level events be worth its full amount rather than half.

For example, a player enters a 500 level event and is awarded 300 points. Then they enter a second 500 level event and win, and are awarded 500 points. If they do not have a 250 level event in their current rankings, the points from their worst 500 level event will only count the same as they would have been at a 250 level event. In this case, 500 points and 150 points instead of 500 and 300.

As soon as a player has at least one 250 level event counting towards their rankings, the results from all 500 point events are counted in full. Conversely, if the last 250 level event drops from the player's counted tournaments and they have two remaining 500 level events, the least valuable points will be halved to match up with the points awarded for the same result at a 250 event.

These future changes in the rankings formula will hopefully encourage more players of every level to take part in more tournaments across all levels of competition, from the biggest and most valuable to small tournaments at one day conventions.

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These points and rankings look familiar/complicated.

If the entire system looks familiar, it's because it is based on the ATP Rankings.

If the entire system looks complicated, it's because the Association of Tennis Professionals (the ATP) has had four decades to work out all the problems. Each new complication to the basic concept is to avoid an unfairness to those taking part in the tournaments and to make the whole scene more interesting and exciting.

Of course, due to the different nature of the sports, the Fight Night Beta rankings will differ in key ways, and will do so more in the future as the sport develops, but by learning from the history of another sport that features knockout tournaments of matches between individuals I hope to avoid the same pitfalls.

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